What most people might not know is that we knew each other in high school; you were one grade above me. A lot of people don’t think that makes much of a difference but I definitely remember looking up to you for a lot of reasons. We haven’t talked in a few years, but I saw a post you recently shared on Facebook about moving to Salt Lake City. It would be really hard to ask you to catch me up on the last nine years or so, but how did you end up in Salt Lake? 

First and foremost, I’m so excited to be doing this. 9 years is a long time, but it’s also amazing to see what so many of us from that time period are doing with our lives now. I can’t speak for everyone, but for me, where I am today is not where I saw myself being 9 years ago. When you’re a teenager, and if you’re anything like me, you had your life mapped out of what you wanted it to look like by the time you were 25-30. But, 9 years taught me that life is definitely not the linear progression we all think it to be! Salt Lake City… I would’ve laughed had anyone told me I’d end up here. I always saw myself in a super progressive town, maybe outside a big city somewhere. In my vision, there was always a beach! But, here I am today, surrounded by towering mountains and 1,000 miles from the closest beach. Nonetheless, it’s stunning here. I’m struck each day by the vastness of the mountains, the history of this land, and the jaw-dropping beauty of the Great Salt Lake. I’m so lucky to be here… to call this home. So to answer your question, change brought us (my fiancé, daughter, and two huskies) here. George, my fiancé, looked at me one November afternoon and said, “What do you think about moving? What about Salt Lake?” Two months later we had our entire lives in a Uhaul on a quest to make a new start in a city that had never imprinted itself on our lives. Collectively, this move was a new beginning and that quintessential breath of fresh air that everyone talks about. We needed this move not only for us personally, but for us as a couple. We love California, and it’s always going to be my childhood home. But with the inevitable traumas that happen in our lives, sometimes being in the same place for so long is like relentlessly pouring salt on wounds, over and over again. I had a lot of pain from my childhood embedded into the streets of Southern California. It’s safe to say, I didn’t want to carry that weight around anymore. 

And to start fresh, it helps to have a vision. Sometimes I think there’s a weird juxtaposition between manifestation and hard work. Your mind is powerful and you can absolutely create your dream life, but the work has to match it. There’s action steps behind co-creating.

Absolutely. The people who know me best would support me in saying that I’m a dreamer. I live in my mind, almost to a fault. I love to manifest new realities in my mind, but sometimes have trouble executing it. Thankfully, I think to key to this is knowing ourselves, including our limitations. I found someone who is a manifestor by nature. So while I’ll generate new ideas, my fiancé can manifest them so much easier than I can. Co-creating means living in between those two realities of manifestation and hard work, without getting too stuck on one end of the spectrum. It could be argued, this is true for most things in life. Sometimes that involves letting others in to help create that dream life and turn it into a reality. 

Moving to Salt Lake was a major leap out of your comfort zone in many ways. You moved right before the pandemic, so this might be a “duh” question, but it’s hard to start over and create a social support system - pandemic or not, whether you’re shy, outgoing, anything. But how important is it to build those relationships?

Oh man. This has been TOUGH. And let me be frank, I’m a hot mess express most days, but the pandemic exacerbated that beyond belief. I’m a total home body, and I’m also the person with a short social threshold, meaning I can only be in social settings for so long before feeling completely depleted. So in a lot of ways, I was already working at a deficit to create social support systems before the pandemic really began. I had a built in social support system in California. I had friends, my job, the gym, and my family close by. I took that for granted. I didn’t realize the effort that’s involved with being a good friend and what it takes to cultivate lasting friendships. My friends are like family, so when you’re in, you’re in. Actually, you’re kinda stuck with me forever. Maybe that’s not a healthy thought process, but it’s brought me a few very close friendships in my life, even if we don’t live nearby. I wish I would’ve worked harder to build friends here in the beginning. I still don’t have many here, if I’m being honest. I can chalk that up to being incredibly busy, but it’s more the social anxiety part about starting over with new people that really makes it hard. The pandemic was really just an excuse for me not to try in the beginning. While that’s the hard truth, it was also my reality. Presently, this is a path that needs more growth from me. Social support isn’t just from family. We have to create a network outside of that, or else we rely too heavily on our significant others to carry our burdens. We have to have people to call in those moments where we need to cry, need to vent, or need to laugh. It’s not fair to just rely on one person to be all of that for us. I think the pandemic has really highlighted this for me. I’ve just started actually searching for friends. Joining a new gym, putting myself out there, and being open. What I hope is that this will organically bring a social support system to my life in the very near future. 

You’re a self-described cheeseball, but I’ve always remembered you as someone who has it together, someone who is strong and handles anything with grace and maturity. Looking back, I don’t remember you making any mistakes in high school, which is probably not true, but from the outside looking in, you seemed to have this belief that things will work out somehow.

Those are incredibly kind words. To some degree, it’s true. I didn’t make many of those typical mistakes high school kids make - but, it’s not for the reasons you’d think. My life was in constant chaos as a kid. I hid it from everybody. I lost my mom at 14 from a drug overdose, and lived with my dad who was a severely depressed, struggling small business owner who died when I was 18. He struggled to put food on the table, we rarely took hot showers, and I had a job at 16 to help offset some of the burden. My brother during that time was struggling with his mental illness, I had a sister who was a struggling addict, and beyond all of that, all I wanted was to be a normal teenager. And I’d say, I did my absolute best to make it look like I was just that: normal. I will say, I do still believe greatly that things will somehow work out. They always have. Again, it’s not linear and life really sucks sometimes, but the ability to see past the moment is one of the greatest skills being an adult has taught me. The storm passes. But also, we have the opportunity to create the life we want, so long as we’re willing to take that first step. And I knew Southern California wasn’t healthy for me anymore, which is why I took that step towards creating a life that was healthy. And largely, things have worked out here. It’s that degree of faith in the unknown that has to propel us forward sometimes. 

In life we will always continue to grow, but I think this time frame is especially major. How do you overcome, or work through, self-doubt?

I’m a chronic self-doubter. Like many of us, I can talk myself out of doing just about anything. But for me, overcoming self doubt means utilizing the resources I have to help massage that doubt. Specifically, I lean in closer to my support network. I ask for help. I’m the type of individual who needs reassurance and needs a thumbs up. Other times, it’s just a pat on the back. But like I said, leaning in is huge. It’s ok not to be ok, but I believe we all have the ability to be deterministic. We can actualize any reality we want, but doubt is normal. It’s actually a protective mechanism. So I try not to judge it so hard anymore and just ask those I trust for reassurance! 

Going back to that Facebook post, you wrote, “Time always draws a line between the people and places we once knew.” Last year was hard for so many people. For me, I’ve had to deal with death in a new way, and had to recognize that life keeps moving and we keep changing, that things won’t be the same as when we were last with those we lost. How do you find courage to continue to change, to evolve, and to move forward?

Oh man, this one hits me. But you really hit the nail on the head. Life keeps moving. Even when we feel like the floor has been ripped out from under our feet, even when we feel like the whole world should stop and grieve with us, that’s just not reality. Courage looks differently on everybody, and I think it’s important to note that. For some people, courage looks like getting out of bed every day and going outside. For others, it’s digging deeper into discomfort or having difficult conversations. But for me, courage has been honesty. That’s honesty with myself, about my thoughts and feelings. It’s hard to authentically move forward if you’re not standing in your truth. And I’ll be the first to say, it’s incredibly uncomfortable. But courage is a byproduct of those actions and permeates itself into other parts of your life…

We have to be willing to feel those feelings. Hear those words. Listen to those thoughts. But by doing so, we unlock hope. And hope is what propels us forward in the darkness. 

Are you someone who embraces change? 

This is tricky. Yes and no. It’s a survival skill to hold onto what’s good in our lives. I’ve had some post-traumatic stress in my days, and it makes it difficult to let go sometimes. But again, I have the emotional support from those I love to grant me the reassurance I need. I can't tell you how much I leaned on George during the beginning part of our move. Change is so difficult sometimes. But I can also say with confidence that I really don’t know who I’d be without change and adversity. The thought of never taking that leap of faith and what that would’ve inevitably translated is more terrifying to me than uprooting my whole life to move somewhere new. The prospect of being stuck scares me more than change does, maybe because my whole life has been rooted in wild changes. 

You’ve always been an advocate of protecting your energy and staying aware of how powerful your mind is, and you’ve always loved to help people, which is why it’s not surprising you’re going to be a mental health counselor. Have you had your path figured out, or did it take trial and error?

This has been total trial and error. I mean, by the end of this thing, I’ll have 3 degrees… all of them are very different. I was scared to want to be a therapist because that meant really being transparent, open, and honest with my traumas.

You can’t be expected to show up for others if you can’t show up for yourself.

So it’s taken me moving through 3 different ideas of where I saw myself and essentially failing in those before chasing my dream to be a therapist. I’ve always wanted a profession that allowed me to have genuine, meaningful conversations with people. I want to foster a safe place for people to turn to and explore new realities with. This idea propels me forward every day. 

Like you said, you are also introverted. How do you find peace and quiet your mind when things get tough or overwhelming, or you feel particularly anxious?

I’m a huge advocate of taking “mental breaks.” I know myself, and my window of threshold is small. When I feel myself reaching that window and I feel that sense of overwhelm creeping in, I have to remove myself from my normal environment. I’m a stay at home mom and full time student: needless to say, I’m home… a lot. With a toddler I might add. So it’s crucial that I get outside alone, take walks, go to the gym, call my sisters… those keep me moving forward. So to answer your question, I have to give myself the space to feel that emotion and then go move that energy in a productive manner. My favorite thing to do is go for a hike in the trails nearby (when it’s not freezing!) I can’t wait for spring and the green hillsides here. They’re therapy in and of itself. 

Sometimes being too in your head and self-aware can turn into hyper-awareness, which almost leans more detrimental than beneficial, right?

Totally. Hyper awareness can manifest itself from a person who struggles with perfectionism and who is overly self-critical. Awareness is a beautiful thing, when you can observe your thoughts, good or bad, for what they are and move in the directions that light your soul up.

But for so many of us, we’ve been taught to subconsciously compare our lives to those around us. So sometimes self awareness turns into feelings of insecurity, self doubt, and perpetual competitiveness. Each of these are thieves to your inner joy. Learning to balance it all is the goal. 

You find the beauty in everything - whether it’s nature, time with loved ones, or even a little bit of humor in the classroom. As someone who studies performative psychology, is it innate or can we train ourselves to be positive?

Our social constructs largely define how we interpret the world around us. In performance psychology, many of the theories are grounded in the idea that people are self deterministic in nature. This means that people have the ability to self actualize and learn how to live optimally. But, from my work and from studies, our environment has to be open for us to create that change. Who we surround ourselves with, what we choose to read and absorb ultimately defines how we perceive the world. So to train yourself to become more positive, I’d first take a look around and ask yourself if your environment is fostering that type of growth? If it isn’t, then well, you know where to begin. 

You’re a mom, a fiancé, getting your second Masters, and balancing so much. We were talking earlier about not wanting your daughter to see you on your phone too much. And it’s important for you to take time for you, Savanna, as well. How do you make time for yourself?

Ooo this is a fun one. I’m able to make time for myself because my fiancé let’s me regularly pass the baton to him. We have no real familial support in Salt Lake, so we have to rely on one another to help facilitate time for hobbies. Thankfully we have each other to lean on for that. I love to get outside, go to the gym, get my nails done, or chill in the bath with a good book. These all help to create a line between my defining properties of being a mom, fiancé, and full time student. Even if it’s 20 minutes some days, making time for myself is crucial to my well-being. 

What does a day in your life look like? 

Oh I’m boring! A day in the life is a lot like this: Wake, coffee, chase my toddler around the house, coffee, maybe a shower, NAP TIME= SCHOOL TIME, coffee, trip to target, go to the park and chase my baby, dinner time, bathe my baby, homework, maybe a corny TV show, BED. 

One lesson Salt Lake has taught you is that living your best life means living it together. When you said that, it reminded me that as much as we work to chase goals and big dreams, it’s important to look around, because it’s the “mundane” moments with our loved ones that will count the most at the end of the day. And home is more of a feeling than four walls. 

This is so true for me. I think in reality, I know that I can live anywhere, do new things, go new places — so long as I have my family. I’m not saying this is true for everyone though. Some people’s families are downright awful, but mine is everything to me. I believe that we get so caught up in the next big thing or the notion of the grass being greener that we forget to enjoy the people who are sometimes standing right next to us. Home is wherever we make it. I try really hard to not take for granted this precious time in my life with my sweet baby girl and all of the laughs I get to share with my future husband. 

You’re an incredible friend - that’s something that always comes to mind when I think about you. And in order to have good friends, you have to be a good friend. What is a tip or piece of advice you have for being a good friend?

I’m super flattered you said this! But I think I could use some improvement in this department. I’ve definitely been a good friend in the past, but as time would allow it, I became pretty self involved after having a baby.  But, I think still making time to check in, share photos, or share a memory is how we foster being a good friend in today’s era. My friends are like family. I said it earlier, but I’ll say it again: once you’re in, you’re in. And I’ll stalk you if you don’t reply to me or if I get that feeling that you need someone. We all need that in our lives. 

You’re on a journey to freedom, and that’s not just an external, no limits freedom. Sometimes the biggest conflict we feel is within ourselves. What is freedom to you? Is it a destination, or more of a life-long journey?

To me, freedom is the lifelong pursuit of having the opportunity to try new things and explore our thresholds for the universe. What I mean by that is that freedom ensures we grant ourselves the unspoken permission to live in a life that’s free from harsh judgment.

We live authentically, in our own light, and foster innate creativity. It’s a forever thing.  

Some people might call doing that inner work hippie-ish, but I think that label is more of a defense mechanism than anything, because self-knowledge can be really scary. That being said, what is something everyone should know how to do?

Breathe!! We all should know the power of our breath. We should all know a few simple techniques to down regulate our system when we feel overloaded. Next time you’re feeling stressed and overwhelmed, try this:

5-5-7

5 seconds inhale 

5 seconds hold

7 seconds exhale 

Repeat 3 times 

Oh, and relax your shoulders and unclench your jaw. I remind myself of this a few times a day. 

What do you see 2021 bringing you?

Marriage for one! 7/11 is the day. But I also see it bringing hope and acceptance. I see it bringing me closer to understanding my inner self and remembering the impermanence of life itself. 

seven questions with savanna swartz:

I can’t go a day without… COFFEE!

Everyone should see... Good Will Hunting & Ever After

Life is better with a little… Humor

Everyone in their 20s should… climb a mountain or two 

One insider thing to do in Salt Lake City… Ask for fry sauce literally anywhere. Iykyk

What the world needs right now is… LOVE

One way to spread love is… through loving yourself.

Follow Savanna on Instagram here.

All photos courtesy of Savanna Swartz.