a spontaneous conversation with Carlton Avery

meet carlton.

in case you didn’t know, i’m a firm believer that things happen for a reason - coincidences are nonexistent in my book, and there is definitely a reason that carlton came into my life. i met him for the first time last month when we became roommates for ten days. one “hey, you wanna grab coffee?” later, and this conversation is the end result.. a perfect reminder to say hi and ask someone what they’re all about.

i’ll always love the feeling that comes from making a connection with someone else whom you least expected to, when you least expected it; it’s one of my favorite things about life. carlton follows his heart and is unapologetically himself, and i can’t wait for you to get to know him, too.

Hello! So, we are roommates for the next ten days, and something I’ve learned about you from the get-go is that you really value communication. That being said, wanna talk?

Yeah, let’s do it.

What is one thing everyone should know how to do?

One thing everyone should know how to do is both empathize and sympathize with someone, but know the difference.

What does a day look like for you?

I teeter very heavily on the introvert-extrovert line, almost 50-50. I really value my time at home and having the chance to get ready for my day. It takes me a while to do that. A good majority of my morning is spent getting up, getting ready, getting prepared for whatever is coming. Usually it’s either going to be work or going to an event, so I’m putting myself in the proper headspace. A day in my life consists of me getting ready and having time to myself and charging, so to speak, and then I’ll go out to whatever it is that I have planned for the day. I’d say the most important part of a day for me is my shower. They’re always at least 30 minutes. It makes me feel clean and ready to go, but also it’s my time where I can decompress and breathe. I get some thoughts out.

Tell me more about you.

I grew up in a very tiny town in North Florida that has like 3 stoplights; one of them probably doesn’t even work by now. We’re known for an all-night gospel and an annual rodeo. I have an extremely conservative family that has some problematic tendencies, and then I furthered my education in south Alabama, which is not much better. Politically, it was hard. I finally rested on this place where I was hearing all of these things, and I knew what felt right for me, but at the same time, I know we can’t discredit other people for feeling the way they want to feel, either. They have values. They have opinions. They matter because they represent, for better or worse, a part of our community. I know what it felt like for me, even today, to be told that what I value is not right or correct. Whatever they want to label it as – a sin, disgusting, this, that. I know what that feels like, and essentially, as hard and as uncomfortable as it is, we have to look at everybody as humans.

When it comes to criticism, what do you think is the best way to handle it? Do you try to stick up for yourself, or is it best to pursue that inner peace?

There has to be some sort of inner peace. When there’s a certain level of success or progression you’ve reached, people are going to do whatever they can to snatch it back and discredit it. You don’t have to listen to that. It’s going take a minute for someone to get to that point where they understand you and your work, if they ever do. But if not, the repercussions of the negativity is that they do eventually spiral. They get scared, they get upset, and they broadcast all of that shit onto other people. You’ve got to tune that out… to an extent. But if you get to a point where you’re okay and you say you’re okay, then you can find that peace.

Even when it comes to the people that you’ve wronged, you have to make peace with that and know that you’re doing the best that you can.

I think the first thing that anybody tries to do when they reach that point is try to reach back out to those people, which sends them into their own spiral. I have never tried to reach back out to the people I have hurt; I don’t know if I ever will. I think the extent of me reaching out would be to make a public announcement that I am sorry, because I am, but I’m not going to go hunt them down just because I would rather spend my time focusing on what comes next, and building something bigger and better. I think if something has happened so far back in the past - like me and the topic I used - it’s such a long time ago and things have changed so much that if that person is still in that space of holding onto that, if they’re in that space because someone has become so happy that they want to throw a rock at that, that’s insecurity that they’re dealing with.

It almost creates an unhealthy environment for you to even go back into to apologize because if they’re focused on the wrong, they might not want to reach a common ground. You can come up with a solution on your own. You can forgive someone without them apologizing. I think you reconcile your past every day by choosing to be better and making good changes. Life is not as transactional as we think, where it’s an eye for an eye for an eye. One bad thing can happen, you can make a mistake, but then you can turn around and do a lot of great things with sincerity.

Now thinking about it, I think most people do come to a point where they forgive others without an apology, but not forget. There are personality types that want to keep trying to make amends, and there are people that will take advantage of that; they always want something for it, whatever it may be – usually materialistic items or other unrealistic expectations. But it’s interesting, forgiveness is a very important thing. You’ve got to forgive. Understand that people are in different head spaces and at different places in their lives when it comes to forgiveness.

Exactly. You decide how impactful something is going to be on your day or week or even your life. Someone could lie to you about taking a candy bar from your kitchen and a lot of people would see that as little. But if a little kid does it and you think that behavior could continue into something more extreme, it’s large to you. If someone lies and says they’re too busy to hang out, and they do it once, you move past it. But if someone tends to do that to you a lot, it becomes bigger. It’s a perspective thing and I think you create your own narrative with other people and experiences.

Correct. It’s kind of like a “woe is me” thing, too. Like, okay this happened to me. It's okay to be selfish in a way that you’ll have a little bit of a viewpoint leading into future situations.

But I will say this time and time again: whether it be entering a friendship, romantic relationship, any kind of relationship, or dealing with relationships I already have - I will never allow what someone else did to me affect my viewpoint on my relationship with another individual.

I am not that kind of person that is like, “I have so much baggage.” Baggage to me is like, “Okay, these things happened and they’re difficult for me to talk about personally, so those are conversations that will take time for me to open up about, but I’m not holding it against you. I don’t think you’re going to do anything to me; you didn't do that to me, so why am I making you answer for that person’s problems?” That’s insecurity and fear. It’s so weird because it’s so acceptable. Your feelings and fears are valid. We tend to rationalize our fears. But you have to move on. You have to. You can’t always be the victim.

It almost becomes self-sabotage when you allow fear to be part of the game.

If you have been a victim of something, you can help other victims. Does that make sense? Why would you use that power, that story, and that information, and just live in that world of “This, this, and this happened to me, and it’s just a lot, so you’re going to have to fight hard to get my trust?” No. Just as much as I firmly believe that I can tell every single person in this world that I love them, I also trust everybody in this world at the beginning. I don’t make anybody fight for my trust.

It’s not a game.

It’s not. It’s like buying a dollhouse for a little girl. You’re not going to give her the dollhouse in little pieces. You’re going to give her the whole thing. And if you play it like a game, you are hurting people by living in a world of letting how other people hurt you affect how you approach other people and situations. To me, that always comes back to mean something deeper. Something has happened to the point where you allow yourself to make that excuse for yourself, that it’s okay to make other people answer for it. But it’s not. The people who didn’t hurt you are never going to be able to explain why you were hurt. They’re can’t, because they didn’t hurt you. They don’t have the answer for it. Truth be told, you don’t even have the true answer for it, so you have to forgive and let go. And let’s not forget the fact that that is an endless cycle, because you’re waiting for an answer from that person and they might not have one. That’s where forgiveness comes in, where you are no longer looking for an answer or justification. You’re no longer looking for anything other than solidarity of, “It happened and I’m done.”

You need to create that peace or that lacking mindset will follow you everywhere. If you can’t cross the street without thinking that someone is out to get you… you’re done.

It sucks, too because we live in this world where we are based off of our reputation and we’re based off our status… and that goes down to something as simple as going out to eat at a fucking restaurant. Does it have three stars instead of five? Oh, that’s a red flag! And why? Because of a small handful of people who had a bad experience? If it was true, it was true in the moment. Not an overall picture.

We can be our own worst critics, but knowing other people judge you, too… you have to come to terms with the fact that someone is sometimes going to limit you to a snapshot, which is so hard.

It is heavy and it is hard. There are so many things that are double-edged. A huge conversation that I’ve had with a lot of friends lately is about the toxicity inside of the queer community as far as dating, and the way that we subject people to certain body types and positions… yes, it’s toxic. For instance, I was talking to [this person] for a bit. A red flag that I should have addressed at the time was when he said, “Oh, well just in a nutshell, the queer community is toxic.” He said something that attacked an entire group of people - our community - and I was like, “Whoa. I totally agree with you that there is a lot of toxicity inside our community, but it comes from mindsets like that.” Yes, toxic, but follow it up with something positive because at the end of the day, we’re not getting anywhere by attacking each other. It’s not wrong for those people to go and work out every single day and have buff bodies versus my femme body. What’s wrong is when people start deeming a certain body-type or certain type of person unattractive, not worthy of affection, or unworthy of communication. Just stop questioning love. Stop questioning communication.

Everyone is worthy of love; everyone deserves it. You’re not better than others because of something that you choose to do personally. Because on the other end of it, they’re choosing to do something personally, too. There’s never going to be anyone just like you.

I agree. Okay, when someone is trying to be a better person, how do you personally choose to support them?

There are things I am guilty of in the past and I firmly believe that it starts with self-acceptance of what you’ve done. You have to own it. Like, “I did this,” and tell yourself that it wasn’t right. Because yeah, you can own it, but there are some people that are “owning it” and they’re making excuses for it still. It starts with that. And there has to be some sort of inner peace with yourself. Like, the things that I’ve done, some of those people may not ever forgive me for it, and moving forward, there are going to be things that I do that people don’t agree with, but you have to understand that there’s going to be people who don’t agree with what you do. When you’re passionate about something and you have a platform and you’re speaking about it, [some] people are going to do whatever it takes to find something to pull you back, and they’re going to do whatever it takes to find something to throw at you, so it comes down to how you deal with it then. Own it, but moving forward, I think people notice very quickly when someone is still being themselves. They move forward with just as much tenacity as they had before, if not more, and they continue to go on and do what they’re doing. It’s kind of like when you’ve fallen, how do you get back up? It’s how you’re going to get back up that matters, and how you continue to move forward. That’s how I view that.

Do you find that the best way to reconcile past mistakes is to keep yourself accountable and aware of it and try to do better?

I do think it’s very important. There comes a point in time when we all have the choice to educate ourselves further and that goes with people who have that feeling inside of them where they know something’s just not right. For me, a lot of my actions and behavior were stemming from fear because I knew that the people I made fun of were experiencing things and acting upon things that I had been feeling myself but was hiding. It was a fear thing. It’s important to know the reason behind why I was acting upon that. And then when you reach that point, you can either run from it and continue to go down that path because it’s comfortable, or you can start exploring those feelings and start finding, what I believe to be, yourself. Because we’re all influenced up until a certain point by the values and morals of our families, but we have the choice to start replacing that with our own feelings and morals and things that we truly believe are correct. Personally for me, I come from a family that’s not supportive of my sexuality.

But there came a certain point where my happiness and my story mattered more than being unhappy and harming other people because of that unhappiness. when you do that, I think that there’s a certain amount of relief and light that comes through you and you just keep wanting to move. You keep wanting to grow.

We had that conversation about my mom one day telling me, “Even as a kid and going through high school, when you were home, you always introduced the family to new things. You were that person. You showed us things.” But there comes a point where A) that’s not really my job. You’re my family. You should be interested in these things because I’m your son [and] you love me. If you’re wanting a relationship with me, you should genuinely care. If you’re wanting a relationship on any level with anyone – friendship, romantically, whatever – I think you will have that desire to be interested in what that person’s doing. But also, I started realizing that I had a personality type, the knowledge, and the passion to help more than just a small group of people. I wanted to use my influence and my education to go after a larger group of people, like the younger generation, or even people who haven’t been given the same opportunities or resources or haven’t reached that point yet of that realization and are struggling the way that I did.

It’s when you important realize that some people don’t have the same desire for growth and change that you have, because you can’t force people to change if they don’t want to. We have a similar personality type where we don’t like to leave someone behind, so to speak, but where do you find comfort or a lack of anxiety when you realize that you can’t make excuses for other people?

We need to be so relentless in not offering excuses for toxic behavior. Toxicity can be a word that has so many different meanings to it, and to that point I say, you know yourself. Each person has a threshold of how much they’re going to allow themselves to keep being ran over or how many times they’re going to reach out that hand and get bit before they’re like, “No.” But the true testament is when that person is harming themselves in any way by running away from growth. And don’t forget that you have to be so extremely patient. I would never encourage someone to leave someone who isn’t changing because that’s not going to do anything. That’s not going to help. We all have to understand that people move at their own pace and they move at their own time, but you can do that without excusing their behavior. People need to stop being so afraid of rejection and so afraid to communicate in general. It’s the domino effect of the “bad bitch” complex and covering yourself up with the fact that you don’t want to be emotionally vulnerable because you’re a “bad bitch.” It’s so glamorized, and like… why? It just breeds a culture for people to think it’s okay to just leave someone in the dust and not have a conversation about it. It’s powerful to be a bitch nowadays, if that makes sense. It’s almost seen like, “I’m a boss and I don’t have time for what’s not serving me.” Yes, that’s accurate if someone is being toxic to you, but you have to have a conversation and you have to also see their perspective. You can be tough, but you can’t be rude. The truth is people only use the “bad bitch” complex when they’re afraid of something. With that being said, there are just some people that are slower to warm up, but that’s a completely different concept. You need to be patient with those who are taking a bit to grow and might be a bit difficult to be around because they’re saying problematic things. Call them out on it because it is wrong, but also, they’re not going to change overnight.

You didn’t change overnight. I didn’t change overnight. I’m going on twenty-four years old and I know there are many things that I have to learn, and I’m excited to learn, and there are things that I frustrate myself with because I still haven’t learned.

Would you say that you could cut off communication for a time in order to focus on your growth?

Yeah. Distance from someone is something that people need to stop being afraid of, too. We’re not obligated to people’s time. We’re not obligated to people; people are not obligated to anyone. We all grow and we all change and we all do different things but at the core of it, there’s something about someone that’s always going to be the same. My good friend, Sarah, I’ve talked to her more in the past month than I’ve talked to her in half a year, but nothing’s changed. Things have changed, but we’re still friends. I don’t worry about the place that our relationship is in. It’s about valuing the moments in a relationship. You’re 2 individuals and it should always be viewed that way; you’re not fused as one. That means sometimes you’re going to need to vent or talk, and the person you need might not be on the same energy level to give you words back. Maybe they just need to sit and listen that day, and then the conversation’s over and you gotta go. Or maybe they’re just not in the headspace at all to have a conversation that day and you have to wait. That’s how relationships work. You have to give and take with each other. Understand where the other is at, but also, you can’t just leave someone in the dust because it’s a 2-way street. You still have to communicate, because it’s not somebody else’s job to read your mind. You have to say it.

Do you have any tips for better communication?

If you feel it, say it. Just… don’t be a fucking dick! Don’t be this badass rude person that is just out to harm people. These are two tips that tie in together: Say what you want to say when you’re feeling it because that’s important, but make sure that you’re not saying something that is just you broadcasting your insecurities on someone else. Stop worrying about what people think, but also stop making people worry about what you think.

What do you mean?

We all know what it feels like inside of our own selves, let alone with other people, to be that person that is second-guessing themselves, thinking, “Oh, I look this way,” or, “I sound that way,” or “I did this wrong,” and it sucks. Those are really, really hard feelings to deal with. We’re all battling with that, and the first time it really resonated with me was when I first moved to the city. I’m not sure if many people are aware, but mental illness in the city is something that you actually physically see more. You see people that are dealing with it in the streets every single day. One day I was riding the subway, and there was this homeless person that was talking to himself, and there was a person on the train that was making fun of them… just laughing and being loud about it and calling them crazy and stuff like that.

A man next to me leaned forward and told that person, “Hey, you don’t get to do that. You don’t get to make fun of this person because, honestly, the only difference between you and that person is that they’re just doing it out loud.”

Every single time I think of that story, it gets me. What makes you label someone as crazy is that the struggles that they’re having internally, they’re broadcasting externally. We have to recognize that just because someone is communicating a little bit more or in a different way than you communicate, it doesn’t make them crazy and you don’t get the right to make them feel like you’re judging them. Stop making people feel that way. Communicate with them and be honest about how it’s not necessarily the way that you communicate. Then maybe monitor it and try to figure out what works for both of you.

Don’t ever just shut somebody off because it’s not your norm. Don’t ever do that because you’ll miss out on so much. You’ll miss out on so many friendships, relationships, and decent conversations with people.

If you were to just say, “Oh, you communicate differently than I do. You talk differently than I do,” and cut it off, you’d really miss out. That’s so toxic and so harsh. It’s a defeated attitude, because it feels like defeat when you’re on the other end of it, too. We’ve all been there. We’ve all been on both sides. Start being more comfortable learning more about yourself to know that there are times and places when you should or shouldn’t put yourself in conversation. You’re going to start saving yourself a lot of trouble when you know, “Hmm, I’m just a little tired right now and that means that I shouldn’t really have an in-depth conversation with somebody.” Know when it’s right for you to put yourself in a position to have that type of conversation. If it’s not time, then don’t go there. Know your tolerance level.

But you also have to make yourself uncomfortable at times. Like when I first met you, I was a little tired and I’m generally a little quiet when I first meet people. I could have walked into my room, set my suitcase down, and closed the door. That’s not great but it’s the more natural thing for me to do, but I came back out to talk to you because that’s polite and it was important. Sometimes have to put yourself out there and take the risk.

We all have the opportunity to be whatever the hell it is that we want to be. We really, really do. I firmly believe that. The only thing that stands in our way is ourselves and our lack of ability to be uncomfortable.

I will say time and time again that discomfort is growth. It just is, and it will always be that way. You have to know your boundaries, and it’s okay to have boundaries. You have to know how you as a human progress best. You have to know at what speed, with what kind of people. You have to be honest with yourself about things that you want. You have to be honest: These are things that I’ve questioned. These are things that I really want to experience. Then go do it. I had a friend who talked on her Instagram Story the other day about how we keep breaking promises to ourselves, whether it’s as small as, “I told myself I’m not going to eat sugar or fast food, but it won’t hurt just this one time,” or, “I’m really going to start going to the gym, and I’m going to go 5 days a week but every so often, it will be okay not to go that many times a week.” We keep breaking those promises to ourselves, and it creates this behavior inside of us that allows it. If you look at it from an outsider’s point of view, if you were in a relationship of any kind with someone, and they kept promising you something, and then they kept breaking it over and over again… you would adjust your expectations. You wouldn’t keep going back to get bit so hard all the time, and eventually you wouldn’t go back at all. So why do we do that with ourselves?

True. We want the growth, but we don’t want to work at it. In a way, we’d be way harsher if a friend canceled on us last minute than we are when we last-minute decide not to go to the gym.

It sucks because we view those promises to ourselves as something small. Those are the biggest things! That’s your foundation, your rituals and your routines.

Because here’s the thing: with life, you’re not running away from discomfort. You’re not. Life is uncomfortable. Life is growth. It just is, whether you like it or not.

If you aren’t allowing yourself to create those foundations and set those goals, you’re not feeling anything but discomfort. That’s terrifying. How you handle that and how you keep your own promises is going to affect the way that you approach relationships with other people. You don’t have a foundation to go back to, so you’re irritable. You’re upset. You’re scared. So you do what? You put the “bad bitch” complex on? You rationalize the way that you talk to other people and how you make them feel inferior? You rationalize the way that you talk to yourself and make your own self feel insecure and inferior? Yeah, that’s a thing. It’s not cute. It ain’t pretty. But it happens. I think that the world right now is begging in many different ways, because we’re all different and we all communicate differently at the end of the day… we’re all begging for that to stop. Whether it be in media, social media, photography, music, friendships, relationships… we’re tired of it. We’re just not interested in it anymore, and nobody wants to say that. Because that’s the thing: it’s great. I love seeing things that are polished and pristine and ready to go, and they’re beautiful, but that’s not reality. Things have to be built. There’s communication happening to make that work. People are uncomfortable. People are scared. What is the process like to to success? Or to finally find that sense of accomplishment, in whatever capacity that might be? What’s it like? What is the process like to get to a healthy relationship? What is the process like to become successful at what you’re passionate about? That’s what people want to see. People just have to start admitting it and stop giving in to that illusion that life is perfect. Because it’s not. It never will be.

seven questions with carlton avery:

I can’t go a day without… reflection. That can be a hindrance and an advantage. There are some things that are really good to reflect on, but with the way that my brain works, I can also just bring shit up from out of nowhere and start reflecting on it and worrying about it in some way, or the impact it had.

Everyone should… engage with something political that talks about what is going on in our climate is something people should learn every day, even if it’s just for 5 minutes. I like to listen to The Daily. Stay involved and understand what’s out there and what’s going on and how it applies to us.

Life is better with a little… love and effective communication, because filler communication is not it. It’s okay to be silent sometimes because communication is not just verbal. There is physical communication; there’s emotional. All of it. Each one is important in its own way.

Everyone in their 20s should…not be afraid to take chances. Don’t be afraid to be uncomfortable. It’s really easy for us, especially in today’s climate, to feel like we have to be doing something because everyone else is doing it, especially with the way that media is now. That’s a 2-sided street, because I feel that media opens up a world for us to see things that we couldn’t see, but at the same time, I think it makes us feel obligated to be doing the same things. Don’t be afraid to explore things that are festering inside of your mind. If it’s something you’re thinking about, act on it, as long as you’re not putting yourself or anybody else in danger. Explore. Have fun.

One insider thing to do in NYC: whether you’re visiting or you actually live here, don’t be afraid to just walk around. You don’t have to spend money. Get out of Times Square, Midtown, Manhattan. Literally just go out and walk around the neighborhoods, the parks. Take it all in. Something that we really take for granted here is that in a span of 5 blocks, the entire architecture can change – height, when it’s been built, if anything has been remodeled, what kind of families live there, what the neighborhood is oriented towards. It’s so refreshing to not spend money and not feel like you have to be doing something. Because it’s kind of like doing something without doing something, if that makes sense. You’re just being.

What the world needs right now is… to listen more. We are all so quick to jump and have an opinion and we’re not really basing it off of anything. We’re just throwing our 2 cents into the mix because everyone else is, and without even hearing what the other person is saying.

One way to spread love is… stop questioning it. People attach such serious meanings to the word love – it means romance, it means moving too quickly, and all of a sudden you’re so afraid and saying that word to someone has to mean so much more. No. Love is love. Love is, “I love you.” Genuinely, there is not a person in this world that I think I don’t love. There are many, many people in this world I haven’t met and I still love them because we’re all worthy of it, and we all deserve to hear it. It needs to stop being something that is questioned so much. It’s not questionable, especially if it’s coming from a genuine place. A way to spread love is to stop questioning it. Just do it.

First photo courtesy of Vlad Nabat.